Interview: Dr. Malika Grayson, Ph.D. Speaker & Founder, STEMinist Empowered LLC

By Angela Tai

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO WRITE YOUR BOOK, “HOODED, A Black Girl’s Guide To A PH.D”?

My “HOODED” journey began the first day I stepped onto campus as a graduate student. What inspired me to write “HOODED” was the experience I had in graduate school. HOODED was published in 2020, which was four years after I had graduated. The reason being, for that lag in time, was that I didn’t think my story was important enough and I didn’t think people needed to hear what I had to say. However, I felt very strongly about my graduate journey and found it difficult to express or release my feelings about my experience. That is when I started my own blog, called “A Black Girl’s Guide to Graduate School”, while also reviewing women’s personal statements for graduate applications. It was through that experience, of reviewing statements, that I started to hear various women’s stories and felt so connected to them. As I got to know them more, I kept seeing myself being represented in all these women I was helping. That is when I said to myself the blog is not enough, I just need to pull it all together and tell my truth, and that is when I wrote “HOODED, A Black Girl’s Guide to a PH.D.”

YOU ARE THE SECOND BLACK WOMAN TO GRADUATE WITH A PH.D. IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY IN 2016. DO YOU FEEL THAT THE WORK YOU’RE DOING OUTSIDE OF YOUR DAY JOB IS ALSO FULFILLING AN OBLIGATION?

Yes, I almost feel as if there is so much we need to do as women in the STEM field. That is why I do what I do outside of my day job. People I know, strangers, and family members, are always reaching out to me. I remember a quote my mother said to me – “To whom much is given, much is expected.” I just try to keep that in mind because I do not want to be an island or a community of one as I continue the trajectory of my career. I want to be able to form space and community by creating a pipeline where I can bring people alongside me as I move forward.

BEING A REPRESENTATIVE OF WOMEN OF COLOR, YOU ARE ALSO AN IMMIGRANT, WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR YOU, IN EXPERIENCING AMERICA FOR THE FIRST TIME? BEING THAT YOU WERE A YOUNG ADULT BUT OLD ENOUGH TO GO TO COLLEGE?

It was definitely a culture shock for me as that was my first time leaving home and everybody I know. I went on vacations to New York and Canada as a child to visit my aunts, but this was a completely different ball game. I am a child of the Caribbean, you go to school, you excel, and go to college or start a career and you work hard for it all and stay focused. You do not deviate. I was involved in the community at home in Trinidad before I came to America as well. When I went to Adelphi University, I realized that if I didn’t want to be homesick, I had to get involved and that is where my transition started. I wasn’t only focused on Physics but I also began getting heavily involved in the Adelphi community and that is what really helped me. My physics program was small at Adelphi, so when I went to Cornell afterward, which was a much bigger program, that was even more of a shock for me than even coming from Trinidad to the U.S. because I didn’t yet have a set plan for my research or anything beyond that.

BEING A BLACK FEMALE IN PURSUIT OF THIS CAREER, THE WORD I HEAR THAT COMES UP A LOT (THROUGH FRIENDS) IS TOKENISM, BEING THE ONLY ONE OR FIRST.  WHAT CHALLENGES OR STRUGGLES DID YOU FACE THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU?

I think a lot of women in general face micro-aggressions. That was very apparent during my graduate career. Many times, it was not from professors but other students and sometimes, people don’t even know they are doing it. I remember one time when I was trying to get one of my exams moved from the original date to push it back because of my auditory processing disorder. The lack of support I got was shocking, and I asked myself if I was a different skin tone or if I was a man, would I get a different reaction or be better supported? Sometimes I think when people look at you and notice you look different from everyone, they start to wonder if you are the token Black woman in the space. I really internalized that because I felt like I didn’t belong. I also put myself through hell doubling up on classes since I changed my major from Physics to Mechanical engineering in graduate school, to make sure I didn’t look like a fool or less than everyone else. I just wanted to try and prepare myself as much as I could.

WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR (MINORITY) PEOPLE EXPERIENCING MICRO-AGGRESSION?

The first thing I would say is, we as minority women are held to a higher standard and we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Keeping that in mind, you must be self-aware because not everyone who smiles with you is your friend or supporter and not everyone who congratulates you really means it. You should be observant. I have been in spaces where people are motivating me, but only to a certain point and once I start to surpass them, it becomes a problem. When it came to micro-aggressions, I needed to make sure that I was confident in myself and to own who I am and my education. I reminded myself why I belonged in this space because if you don’t, you really internalize what you hear and the self-doubt starts to creep in. Once you start to question yourself and think, “Is this person right about me?”, that can really take you down a dark road. I see many women at my job who question themselves and it is sad because we feel as if we need to do so much more to get to that point. I have had people say to me you only succeeded in this role because you are a girl, and they are being nice to you. I used to get so angry at that but now I have learned to step back and really try to think about where they are coming from. It is only their insecure projection onto me and because they lack confidence in the work they are doing, they try to belittle the work I have done. I know what I have accomplished and how I perform, so when you go into these spaces you remember why you are here and what you bring to the table.

DID YOUR AUDITORY DISORDER CREATE MORE SELF-DOUBT OR WAS IT MOTIVATING TO PROVE THAT PEOPLE WITH LEARNING DISORDERS CAN BE VERY ACCOMPLISHED IN THE ACADEMIC FIELD?

For me, it didn’t bring self-doubt because I knew my frustrations came from somewhere, I just couldn’t figure out where at first. Once I was diagnosed, I took that as an opportunity to show people that just because I have a different way of learning doesn’t mean I can’t complete a P.H.D. At first, I really did just want to take the easy way out but then I thought about it and talked with my family and decided that giving up is not something we do. I felt that if I wanted to stop the journey it should be my choice and not external factors. I told myself if you try your absolute best and it is still a struggle, and you still feel as if you can’t do it, then at least you can move forward knowing that you put your best foot forward. Since my transparency about my auditory processing disorder, I have had so many people come to me saying they have felt similar ways as I did and wished they too had talked to someone about how they were feeling. It can be hard for people to be vulnerable, and people can be afraid to open up, and it becomes a frustrating ripple effect. Whether you have a learning disorder or not, speaking to someone can always help shed light on what is really going on.

YOU TALK ABOUT HOW GUILTY YOU FELT WHEN YOU TRANSITIONED INTO A MANAGEMENT ROLE AT YOUR JOB (FROM BEING HANDS-ON). WAS THAT PROMOTION SOMETHING YOU FOUGHT FOR?

I was on the technical track, and I did go for a promotion. I had a stretch opportunity and did ask if that came with a promotion, but it was more of a “let’s see how you do”. I made it a point to discuss where they thought my gaps were and how I could improve. I think it is important for people to advocate for themselves and have that conversation but also not take “no” at face value. I was happy that when I was told no, I asked where my gaps lie, so I could build a development plan. In that way, it helps people stay accountable in the situation, including myself. Once I did that, I decided I wanted my title to match the work I was doing. After talking about my development plan, someone in leadership told me that it is a good idea to get management experience now so if I end up not liking it, I am able to go back to that technical role. I appreciated having that conversation because if I never spoke up, I would have never known to take that initiative with getting certain experiences or asking for a promotion. I felt a little guilty at first being in the management role, but having technical knowledge enhanced my experience and how I could contribute to the role.

NOW THAT YOU’RE A MANAGER, ARE YOU INTERVIEWING AND HIRING PEOPLE?

Yes, I currently have a very small team, with one person who reports to me and then I have people who are matrixed, which means even though they have a functional manager, I am the tasking manager they report to. I still had to interview them to be on the team so now we have some new people on the team and it’s great to learn from each other as we continue to grow and deliver to the business.

AFTER GOING THROUGH WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH WITH YOUR CAREER AND ACADEMIC JOURNEY, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PITFALLS THAT COMPANIES OR HIRING MANAGERS FALL INTO?

I was lucky enough to be what we call a hiring champion this past year which means I helped interview many of the new hires that are coming into the company. Of course, companies have a standard interviewing format as well as standard credentials that they check and then they’re onto the next phase. However, for me, what is helpful is talking to people and listening to their stories. You need to be able to hear someone’s story and get a full understanding of who they are. They may look a certain way on paper, but that might not always be the full picture. Let’s say, if someone has a low GPA, instead of casting their resume aside, you listen to their story and it may be compelling and may show perseverance. Those are the kind of people you want in your company. On the other hand, sometimes people look good on paper but may not interview well. There are so many schools out there aside from the “top schools for recruiting” choices that you need to think about and ask, what resources have been given to these schools to help students be at the level you are looking for to bring them into the company.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WORK-LIFE HARMONY, WAS THERE A TIME WHERE YOU FELT STRESSED OR ANXIOUS AT WORK?

Of course, I still struggle with it. It comes in ebbs and flows. Sometimes I think I have great harmony with everything, meaning really trying to integrate that home life and everything in one, that cohesiveness. The balance is sometimes you must take one thing out to make something else fit. Early on in my career, I went to work and then came home. I didn’t really need to have balance or harmony at first because I wasn’t doing much else. As I started to blossom and became more involved in the community and extracurricular, I found more of that harmony. At first, when I wasn’t fully authentic and transparent, I felt like I was living a double life. That’s when the work-life balance was difficult because I felt as if I was taking away from one part of life to give to the other side. As soon as I became more transparent about my job, my passion, and STEM advocacy and bringing those external elements of my life into my job instead of trying to separate it, I felt more harmonized. I feel like I’m at a good place now because, for example, if I’m interested in a certain outreach project, I can actually reach into my network at work and have a discussion with coworkers and get advice whereas before I would have never done something like that.

WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR PEOPLE IN SCHOOL WHO MIGHT BE THINKING ABOUT TRANSITIONING INTO A DIFFERENT FIELD OR MAJOR ALTOGETHER?

Change and anything new are scary. I would say, do it and explore it. I thought I was abandoning Physics for Mechanical Engineering, but it turns out that all I learned from that foundation in Physics I can apply to mechanical engineering and it has actually helped me more. One of the pieces that I use in my job is not memorizing but understanding the “why”. With Physics you question things and want to know “why”. That has helped me across the board in different areas including systems engineering, IT, Project Management, and Program Management. I look at it as an opportunity for growth and skill-building. Don’t feel like you are abandoning anything because you are just continuing to build off of a foundation that you have started on.

WHAT IS THE TOP PIECE OF ADVICE YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR BOOK?

The first piece of advice I have is that you need to tell your story and your story is important. If I didn’t tell my story, I wouldn’t have been able to help someone else. We all have different sides to our stories, and it is okay to share them. It was nerve-wracking to be vulnerable and honest with others, but if I didn’t share my personal story, it wouldn’t have touched people and we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. I am just one story, and HOODED is just an example of that, but we need to have a whole bunch of “HOODED” – like books for people to learn from those who share different backgrounds and experiences. The other advice I want people to take with them is that no journey is pretty. We look at each other and admire each other for what one another has. Of course, it may seem that everything is good on the outside, but there is usually some sort of winding road for them to get there and it is not always pretty. As I go through life and reflect on the opportunities I’ve had, I realize people don’t see the background and they don’t see that I am up in the late-night hours trying to organize and prepare things. It is important for people to not only look at others’ pinnacles but also ask the question, what was it like and what did it take for them to get there? That is why it is always important for people to hear one another’s stories.